Harvard Sociologist Lawrence D. Bobo

I Want to See the Place Where Du Bois Is Buried

Harvard Sociologist Lawrence D. Bobo | Zocalo Public Square • Arizona State University • Smithsonian

Photo by Aaron Salcido.

Lawrence D. Bobo is the W. E. B. Du Bois Professor of the Social Sciences at Harvard University. His research focuses on the intersection of social inequality, politics, and race. Before speaking this January at a Zócalo event titled “What Does the Resurgence of White Supremacy Mean for the Future of Race Relations?,” he spoke in the green room about status and inequality, the prismatic quality of Los Angeles, and pineapple upside-down cake.

Q:

What books are you currently reading?


A:

I most recently completed a book, How Democracies Die, by my colleagues Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt. And I’m looking forward to a new book I just ordered, called Status, by Cecilia Ridgeway, a sociologist at Stanford, who has been studying why we are so focused on differentiating people by status.


Q:

If there were one historical figure, living or dead, you could sit down and talk with, who would you choose?


A:

Nelson Mandela. Of all the great leaders we recognize around the globe, he has an almost saintly quality to him. On the one hand, he had the strength to fight, including if need be violently against an oppressive racist regime. On the other hand, he insisted on working together, and reconciliation.

To be able to do all that credibly, with authenticity, is a clear achievement.


Q:

What place on Earth that you haven’t seen would you most like to visit?


A:

I have not yet been to Ghana. I’ve been to several other parts of the African continent, but there’s something about Ghana that’s calling me. I also want to see the place where Du Bois is buried.

I’ll add a small footnote. I’ve never been to Paris, so I should go there too.


Q:

What dessert do you find hardest to resist?


A:

I’ll say two: pineapple upside-down cake, and warm chocolate cookies.


Q:

What’s the biggest misconception Americans have about inequality?


A:

That it mainly reflects talent and effort. There are just so many other things that feed into it, and over-determine who has how much of the pie.


Q:

Earlier in your academic career, you were at the University of Wisconsin: What do you miss most about Madison?


A:

The university, really. It was such a virtuous place. It had a strong ethical and equalitarian ethos that I find very reassuring and very attractive. And it’s a beautiful city in spring and summer—winters are hard.

Another footnote: That was where my parents met, at the Ratskeller in the old student union.


Q:

You grew up in L.A. and were at UCLA. What do you miss about Southern California?


A:

Transparently, the weather, and being able to take for granted that tomorrow is going to be a good day. When I moved back East, I forgot so many things, like that you have to have snow scrapers in the car. The first time it snowed, I was out there with a broom, trying to get the ice off the windshield.


Q:

What’s the best restaurant in Cambridge?


A:

Unambiguously, it used to be a place called Rialto. Now it’s a place called Panda’s.


Q:

You studied and wrote about the Wisconsin treaty rights dispute and conflict between whites and the Chippewa. What was the most important thing you learned from the Chippewa?


A:

It was a combination of asserting your rights, and being responsible citizens. I did this study of the hunting, fishing, and gathering rights in Wisconsin. It was an issue of interracial conflicts between native and white residents. It was also based on a lot of rumor and exaggeration and innuendos that shouldn’t have carried the potency that they did. And they wouldn’t have had that power if it hadn’t been for the deep-rooted cultural prejudice that were there.


Q:

You edited a book called Prismatic Metropolis, about Los Angeles. What was prismatic about our city?


A:

“Prismatic” was the idea that L.A. captured a remarkable set of hues, and peoples and cultures and languages. We were trying to develop a detailed map of Los Angeles, with a special focus on the ways in which we were unequal, and the ways in which we lived in such distinct and segregated neighborhoods that it was hard to forge the connections with different people.


Q:

Oftentimes we hear that America needs a national conversation about race. But when we actually talk about race, Americans often say awful things and make each other feel bad. Do we need more talk or less?


A:

It’s a really difficult question, because I’m one of those people who is schizophrenic on this subject. You can’t make much progress in race relations without talking about it, putting difficult ideas on the table, having difficult conversations. But some people think talking is the only thing we have to do. Talking is just the beginning—we need to change other things. We can’t continue to live in neighborhoods that are so separated and segregated, and we can’t continue to not be honest about our own history.